Do England batsmen struggle on fast bouncy tracks?

[Jono]

1st Test: South Africa v England at Centurion, Dec 16-20, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: South Africa v England at Cape Town, Jan 3-7, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
4th Test: South Africa v England at Johannesburg, Jan 14-17, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Eng 123 (37.0 ov, CT Tremlett 1*, RJ Harris 6/47) - Match over | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Or have I been listening to Boycott and Botham too long?

Obviously they won in Durban but that wasn't a bouncy track IMO. Not as bouncy as Johannesburg anyway.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I listened to that podcast that you linked to on Facebook, and Boycott was all over it. Whether or not it was to appease him, Broad talked of how they "hoped" it would be a slower wicket which would suit them more in Melbourne.

Think it may be something that plays on their mind a bit more, now.

 

[vcs]

I was thinking about this a few days back. I think, on the contrary, England are one of the better sides in the world at handling such conditions. I find it hard to believe that Durban wasn't bouncy as usual, though I didn't watch that game. Making 500+ on that track must have been pretty tough against Steyn and co. Even the matches they saved in that series, they got respectable middle of the road scores which not many teams manage in SA.

Look at all their batsmen, strong on the cut and pull... Cook, Strauss, Bell. Collingwood also scored pretty well IIRC. Not too sure about Pietersen and Trott but it's not a weak point either for them. Looking at how their batsmen have averaged in their last tours to SA and Aus, I'd actually say the opposite. In England, they seem to do worse.

 

[Dissector]

Incidentally KP averages 19 in these four tests with big failures in the last three where he averages under 5.

 

[Furball]

Incidentally KP averages 19 in these four tests with big failures in the last three where he averages under 5.

Batsman does badly when team gets thrashed shocker.

 

[Jarquis]

Yeah, and when horrendously out of form to boot

 

[andyc]

Team gets thrashed when batsmen do badly shocker.

 

[Dissector]

Actually there are plenty of bastsmen who score runs when their teams are doing poorly. Tendulkar, Lara and Border come to mind for large parts of their career. Not to mention George Headley. As for form, you have to wonder what part it played compared to an inability to handle these pitches. Certainly in the recent test in Perth you can't say he was out of form when he had just scored a double hundred. Not saying KP is some kind of flat-track bully but certainly his performances on these bouncy tracks are worth noting. Will be interesting to see how well he fares on the next such track he plays on.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah, was thinking the same thing. 200 isn't bad for someone who is 'horrendously out of form', even if it was on a flat deck. Wasn't much he could do about Johnson's delivery in the 1st innings though. His shot in the second wasn't a good one.

Think Perth showed how important it is to bowl good lines though. As it is in every match. Australia picked up a lot from their first two bowling efforts.

 

[vic_orthdox]

You could argue that guys like Strauss, Cook and Collingwood, who only ever get half forward and don't get out of their crease to defend on the front foot, get found out a bit more on the front foot - especially in defence - on pitches with that sort of carry.

Not entirely sure that it's the case, but it's a possible reason?

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, was thinking the same thing. 200 isn't bad for someone who is 'horrendously out of form', even if it was on a flat deck. Wasn't much he could do about Johnson's delivery in the 1st innings though. His shot in the second wasn't a good one.

Think Perth showed how important it is to bowl good lines though. As it is in every match. Australia picked up a lot from their first two bowling efforts.

Think the out of form reference was more to the South Africa games.

 

[Evermind]

1st Test: South Africa v England at Centurion, Dec 16-20, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
3rd Test: South Africa v England at Cape Town, Jan 3-7, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
4th Test: South Africa v England at Johannesburg, Jan 14-17, 2010 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Eng 123 (37.0 ov, CT Tremlett 1*, RJ Harris 6/47) - Match over | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Or have I been listening to Boycott and Botham too long?

Obviously they won in Durban but that wasn't a bouncy track IMO. Not as bouncy as Johannesburg anyway.

Sly attempt to do a "well England kinda sorta sometimes have problems on bouncy wickets too!!1!1!!!!!1!!1!" after India's humiliation. The fanboys lash out.

Anyway, I think every team struggles on fast bouncy wickets, except SA, who grew up on it, sorta like how Obelix fell into the magic potion when he was a kid.

 

[Jono]

Hahahahahahah.

I made the post because Boycott and Botham said the same thing. Nice try though.

 

[vcs]

Sly attempt to do a "well England kinda sorta sometimes have problems on bouncy wickets too!!1!1!!!!!1!!1!" after India's humiliation. The fanboys lash out.

Anyway, I think every team struggles on fast bouncy wickets, except SA, who grew up on it, sorta like how Obelix fell into the magic potion when he was a kid.

Well, now that you bring it up....

2nd Test: South Africa v Australia at Durban, Mar 6-10, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Son Of Coco]

Think the out of form reference was more to the South Africa games.

Ah yes, you're right it does. I should've read another post or two higher and it would've become clearer. I was wondering about the averages mentioned actually, should've clicked then!

My apologies Marcuss!

 

[Jono]

Evermind doesn't work in facts, just trolling posts.

He's still bitter that he's going to lose the long-term Ponting vs. Sachin runs bet against me. Hence why he lashes out

 

[Prince EWS]

Who does Evermind actually support?

 

[vcs]

Who does Evermind actually support?

Whoever play India by the looks of it.

 

[Prince EWS]

Whoever play India by the looks of it.

I actually used to think he was a really, really pessimistic Indian fan. I think it's obvious that's not the case now but that's what I thought when I first came across him.

 

[Howe_zat]

Well the typical veiw is that English batsmen will be weaker against real pace and bounce but stronger against the swinging ball, in contrast to the Aussies and South Africans.

Overall, however, I think it's very much up to the technique of the batsman in question, and that conditions are overplayed anyway. A team will play together and will always have to face the same bowling performance - be it quality (Steyn & Morkel at Johannesburg, Johnson at the WACA) or ****house (Ntini at Durban, Johnson at the Gabba).

For example, Andrew Strauss, a very orthodox back-foot left hander, has a very different style to Paul Collingwood, a right-handed nudger who's grafted his style from being a bits-and-pieces player. Nonetheless, their records remain similar because of playing in the same team for so long.